Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

The Thor Message Board >> View Post
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,111
In Reply To
Late Great Donald Blake

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,864
Subj: Re: It just doesn't bother me that much.
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 at 12:34:38 pm EDT (Viewed 111 times)
Reply Subj: It just doesn't bother me that much.
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 at 08:57:11 am EDT (Viewed 148 times)

Previous Post

Oh well I also take your opinion to be incredibly weak sauce lol

Anyway I just don't think Galactus losing or dying even is an act of humiliation. It was a special circumstance in which he was out gunned. What makes it humiliating? That implies there's a level of shame or being demeaned, but I think you're adding that. I think a cosmic God just got murdered (temporarily) in a battle that we already knew had those kinds of stakes. Galactus didn't beg for his life or act uncharacteristically so I don't see where the humiliation comes from.

The only reason it would in itself bedemeaning is if you thought it shouldn't happen. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I don't necessarily agree with that "supposed to". I just think the premise of Galactus losing in a fight upsets certain people's imaginary power heiratchy apple cart, but isn't itself bad writing.

And as far as this being a bad showing for Galactus that's entirely relative in how powerful you think Thor was in this case. I'm not sure why it couldn't be the case that however powerful you think Galactus is Thor was just a bit more stout. And there are plenty of in story reasons for that. You've got Thor's own power, the power he's inherited from the Asgardian Throne and the power cosmic. Maybe for Cates that combination of things is greater than the sum of its parts. Regardless, any notion that this is a low showing for Thor would have to be predicated on the idea that beating the "Herald Thor" was a low bar to clear. And seeing as how this Thor was ostensibly a novel creation, we'd have no basis to say he wasn't this powerful.

As far as "the story has no reason to be that way" criticism, I think like a lot if criticism this is just a set of subjective impressions an arbitrary standards disguised as objective criteria. I mean the purpose of the story is to be entertaining. I thought it was, and I think I'm at least case in point for why that's not just liking Thor getting over on someone or being extra powerful. I also really liked Jason Aaron's Thor run, as well as Warren Ellis's for that matter. But in terms of why the story ended up where it did, the reason the story ended up was there of the big reveal that "the Black Winter" wasn't coming for the 616 universe but just to reclaim Galactus, Thor was incensed that Galactus used him and that the latter had in the process of that destroyed an entire world of souls without allowing Thor to save them. Killing Galactus for that, insofar as it was in his power to do so, makes sense givin' what we know of his character. And turning Galactus into a bomb to be used to dispatch the Black Winter was just a nice dotting of the exclamation point for good measure. So I think the story works and makes sense. in a kind of causal A to B to C sense.

As far as Odin not killing Galactus, I mean Odin might have been right. Galactus certainly seemed pretty certain Thor had made a massive mistake; that might not be for exclusively selfish reasons. We might find that the consequences of killing Galactus are greater than they appear. Odin was always for all his moral ambiguity more forward thinking than Thor, and we might discover that Thor in his simple directness has made a pretty big mistake.

I just think in certain ways all this talk about various power levels distracts from the actual merits of the book. I love the morose almost Shakespearean tone, I love the high level stakes and that Cates really seems to be swinging for the fences. If a few giant purple space gods have to get their asses kicked on the way I think it's worth it.

---the late great Donald Blake

I am going to preface some of this by simply saying what I have been. You liked it, good. I am glad you did and hope you continue to do so. No sarcasm. The point of the story is to find enjoyment. My goal is to try to relay to you why I did not.

Is it opinion...sure enough. So is everybody chatting right now. These are all opinions. Not sure what it adds to say that, but it has been said to me a few times. Not sure why it needs to be said.

I may not hit everything either because I am having issues with the quote system and am partly being lazy. If I do not summarize correctly, I apologize.

1. I do not have an issue with Galactus losing or even dying. It depends on how it is done.

This was not a battle. This was not a fight. This was Thor ignoring Galactus, stealing his power and then easily killing him. Then put the power back in and used him as a bomb. That is humiliation. Begging is not required nor anything else.

If two teams play a sport and are generally equal but one suddenly blows out the other a season than the team is humiliated. Period.

When Hulk beat Thor with his own hammer, it was humiliating.

It does not require anything more than that.

2. I am not upset with a character losing. I do not like humiliating a character. Ignoring the other characters blows, stealing their power and then killing them is pretty bad humiliation.

3. I suppose it is relative to power level but I will do you one better. I do not think Cates really cares or even regards things in the way you are trying to explain.

If you read Thanos wins than we get an explanation that Thanos has gained in power over the years and that is it. Thanos kills KT, Galactus and all the god like beings easily. Then he gets threatened by Silver Surfer with Mjolnir.

It is a cool visual but we saw the source of the PC and Thor with the OP and Mjolnir go down earlier in the story.

It seems to me you are trying to debate this more because you think it was a cool moment more than anything.

4. I think you missed my point about Odin. Given what we have seen to this point of Galactus vs Odin powered beings. It is generally been close, even if not great fights. The one Aaron wrote may have been the best of them...

Never near this one sided. Not close. If it was that easy for Odin, sure seems like he would have done it.

5. The PC is sort of moot as it fits into Thor's landscape right? I mean you are bringing it up that Thor + OP + PC is more than the sum of its parts. Remember, the comic mostly showed that the PC did not matter much to Thor really. Galactus took it back and Thor took it right back. Even without it, he was depicted as much superior.

6. We had a revalation of Galactus now being the lacky of a greater power instead of being a power unto himself. That is a fairly major character shift. Add that to a very human depiction, and emotional one. He is not the only one to do that but generally Galactus is seen as grand and aloof. When he talks things listen, even beings like Odin. Even if they did not agree.

Cates is not obligated to do any of that, but they are major character shifts. Just like his depiction of Thor is more barbarian and in keeping with his desire to make him Superman, but an a$$. I disagreed with that as well.

Because of my own thoughts on who Thor is and what he should be, but a jerk is not one of them.

7. Bringing Thanos in as a big bad at the end of the gauntlet. Such an original reveal. Seems and feels pretty lazy.

I do not agree with many merits of the book, even early on I was not the biggest fan of the depictions for Thor or other characters let alone Galactus. Depictions were wrong. The story idea was not bad, but the build up through the story of necessary evil was ignored to get to a pretty black and white resolution. I am not sure what Shakespear you are reading either, I got none of that, not even with themes. It was pretty much do what you want and get your way in the end. Unless we are just regarding revenge and speech.

It is amusing that you go through all of this about degrading power levels and then point to a virtue as a space god getting beat up.

I most strongly disagree with your narrow interpurtation of what it takes to humiliate a character when I know folks here have screamed humiliation for far far less than what we saw here.

I am glad you enjoyed it and honestly am. But I think this might be it for me and Thor. I survived Aarons run. His initial God of Thunder was good, but then became a mess. The worst part being the depiction of the real Thor.

Look Raist bunnies...
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