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Subj: I just think that the comics are big enough to allow for many different ideas and perspectives.
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 at 11:26:32 pm EDT (Viewed 153 times)
Reply Subj: Re: ...because culture...
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 at 10:17:29 pm EDT (Viewed 173 times)
...and 99%+ of men wouldn't find current She-Hulk remotely attractive. So who are Marvel pandering to by making her deliberately unattractive.
...and yes that's rhetorical.'
LGDB: Yeah, I just don't think it's that extreme. I think you're taking a certain dominant standard of beauty and arguing that that's objective because it's popular. I don't think that's the case.
Its not about me, for 50 years of the comic Thor was attracted to classically beautiful women.
Insert Progessive Propaganda and all of a sudden he is dating one of/if not THE most grotesque woman in the Marvel Universe.
LGDB: You make it sound like a covert agenda or something. I just think the writers at Marvel have different values than you and they're writing their values. I don't think people develop their moral beliefs with a particular intention to supplant your own. For 50 years, standards of beauty have been changing. And I'm sure they'll change some more. Thor's a ficitonal character. There's not a particular psychology constraining the targets of his attraction. He's attracted to whomever the writers have be attracted to, and that's obviously subject to any number of things including cultural standards and the personal perceptions of the writers.
Individually yes, socially no.
99%+ of men are not attracted to current Shulkie. So who are Marvel aiming the comic and this relationship at?
LGBD: This would be more compelling if you weren't just inventing these numbers. lol But seriously, I mean, I just find it hard to believe that you don't understand that standards of beauty do have a tendency to change over a period of time. Also, I'm not really sure that it's clear that even if a majority of people in our society think a certain image of woman is attractive that a writer has to be bound to reflect that with any particular character. So even if it were the case that standards of what were beautiful and attractive were static and the majority liked a certain thing, I don't think Thor has to necessarily conform to that. He's a god. Maybe he like stuff a lot of people wouldn't be into.
The thing I do agree with, at least in part, is that Jason Aaron wrote this relationship because it would have a sort of shocking affect. I think he wrote it because it would be unorthodox and unexpected. I don't that's to be necessarily conflated with some specific liberal agenda, outside of course with Aaron just being liberal and bound to write through that lense.
You are hardly the expert on the subject.
But let me ask you this, does Thor look MORE masculine in the kisses with She-Hulk or LESS masculine?
LGDB: Oh just because you're straight doesn't make you and expert! lol And sense you asked, I don't think who you're attracted to determines whether or not you are masculine or you act masculinely. I definitely know gay guys are more more masculine that certain straight guys. I know straights dudes who are down right girly, even though the like women. I don't really think generalization is itself bad or a problem so long as you understand that generalization don't necessarily accurately apply to individuals.
Well what we do know is that prior to 2015 the VAST percentage of women irradiated with Gamma energy were still classically beautiful.
LGDB: Well... things change. I've got no problem with things changing.
50+ years of continuity. That's who.
LGDB: I mean that's kind of a weak argument. For decades of continuity things are one way, and then they're not. I also think that it isn't clear that this is an actual break in continuity. Thor having a type and then dating one person who is against his type isn't a break in continuity. People do that all the time in real life.
Thor's been attracted to beautiful women for his entire run up until the insertion of the current political agenda.
...and since you mentioned it yes my girlfriend does actually look like Jessica Rabbit (albeit with dark hair).
LGDB: yeah, but again I'm not sure why it's so off the table that this change or if it does change that its necessary some nefarious agenda. I think that the writers are just looking for new avenues to expand or change the character. I don't always agree with those changes, but I think that's the force at work here. Or at least the primary one. I also think, that you have a tendency that if a writer expressed different views or beliefs than you, you suggest that it's some kind of illicit political propaganda operation. Why can't it just be someone that disagrees with you about politics that happens to be a writer on Thor (or was recently). Like half the country is on the other side of the aisle.
If by compromise you mean annoying the vast majority of straight guys (98% of the population) while being tolerated by some gay guys (2% of the population) by putting Thor in a relationship with an OVERTLY masculine woman in effect making it look like a gay relationship (which of course was the whole point Aaron started this relationship in the first place).
LGDB: I'm not sure this is true. First, I'd say most people just don't care one way or another. Not caring or at least not being very annoyed probably takes the lions share here. Also I don't think that Shehulk is OVERTLY masculine. She's just really musuclar. Like if all of a sudden someone magically transformed your wife into having a body like Shehulk, she'd still have a primarly feminine attitude and set of affectation, right? Also, I hate to tell you, but a straight guy and a straight woman who happens to be really big and strong doesn't look like a gay relationship at all. Shehulk's a woman Thor's a man, so they're straight. And I promise you that Aaron didn't do this to make Thor look gay! lol No that I think that would be the worst thing in the world, but that's just not how it works.
Fortunately Donny Cates has YET to sully his run with this emasculating nonsense.
Of course in one title Thor still appears like a man while in two others he is completely emasculated.
LGDB: I don't know. It just sounds to me like you've got a pretty fragile idea of masculinity. Like think about it, Thor under Aaron saves the universe a dozen times, get's in all kinds of fights, kicks ass and all that, gets his arm cut off and barely flinches. But his girl friend has big arms so he's not a man anymore? What's a guy gotta do to be a guy in your eyes?
I don't think lying to them sets a good example.
LGDB: So it's a bigger lie to tell girls that a guy might be attracted to them even if they have an atypical body than it is to tell boys that they can save the universe with their mutant powers?
I don't think lying to them sets a good example.
Current She-Hulk is drawn as a monster. She is drawn no different to Hulk in a bra. Hulk is a monster and always has been described thus.
LGDB: A monster that Thor just happens to be sexually attracted to apparently lol Also she definitely looks different than the Hulk. Plus I mean, it makes sense. Girls that fight in the real world aren't usually petite looking super models. They usually have a lot of muscle on them. Like in UFC. Also they have husband that are attracted to them and love them very much. It makes sense to me.
---the late great Donald Blake
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