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Subj: Re: I just think that the comics are big enough to allow for many different ideas and perspectives.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 at 03:31:19 pm EDT (Viewed 109 times)
Reply Subj: I just think that the comics are big enough to allow for many different ideas and perspectives.
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 at 11:26:32 pm EDT (Viewed 147 times)
Quote:I think you're taking a certain dominant standard of beauty and arguing that that's objective because it's popular.
Classical beauty is objective. That's why for 50+ years of Marvel continuity both male and female heroes were generally drawn conforming to idealised and aspirational body types.
Quote:LGDB: You make it sound like a covert agenda or something.
There is nothing covert about it. Marvel only employs those with Progressive politics who vocally virtue signal at every opportunity on social media.
Quote:I just think the writers at Marvel have different values than you and they're writing their values.
Exactly, they are injecting their Marxist ideology into the comics.
Quote:I don't think people develop their moral beliefs with a particular intention to supplant your own.
Name one conservative writer or artist working at Marvel or DC or Image? There are none - they have all been hounded out. In modern mainstream comics diversity of thought is no longer allowed.
Quote:For 50 years, standards of beauty have been changing. And I'm sure they'll change some more.
The progressive left wants you to make you believe beauty is ugliness (and vice versa) and that heroes are villains (and vice versa).
Quote:Thor's a ficitonal character. There's not a particular psychology constraining the targets of his attraction. He's attracted to whomever the writers have be attracted to, and that's obviously subject to any number of things including cultural standards and the personal perceptions of the writers.
Certainly to Aaron injecting his political agenda into the comics even if it means complete 180 degree personality shifts was more important than 50+ years of continuity.
Quote:LGBD: This would be more compelling if you weren't just inventing these numbers. lol But seriously, I mean, I just find it hard to believe that you don't understand that standards of beauty do have a tendency to change over a period of time. Also, I'm not really sure that it's clear that even if a majority of people in our society think a certain image of woman is attractive that a writer has to be bound to reflect that with any particular character. So even if it were the case that standards of what were beautiful and attractive were static and the majority liked a certain thing, I don't think Thor has to necessarily conform to that. He's a god. Maybe he like stuff a lot of people wouldn't be into.
Classical standards of beauty haven't changed. But certainly feminists want them to change so they can cast off any responsibility for their own appearance.
Quote:The thing I do agree with, at least in part, is that Jason Aaron wrote this relationship because it would have a sort of shocking affect. I think he wrote it because it would be unorthodox and unexpected.
Here is a 5-minute video on youtube.
At the 1:30 mark the commentator says "...to the left the primary purpose of art, literature and music is to shock."
Quote:I don't that's to be necessarily conflated with some specific liberal agenda, outside of course with Aaron just being liberal and bound to write through that lense.
Aaron is a self-professed Atheist and Feminist...its clear his agenda is in complete opposition to everything Thor classically stood for.
LGDB: Oh just because you're straight doesn't make you and expert! lol
Yes it does.
Quote:And sense you asked, I don't think who you're attracted to determines whether or not you are masculine or you act masculinely. I definitely know gay guys are more more masculine that certain straight guys. I know straights dudes who are down right girly, even though the like women. I don't really think generalization is itself bad or a problem so long as you understand that generalization don't necessarily accurately apply to individuals.
I remember years ago (around 2006 ish) chatting to a gay guy on one of the comic forums when Superman Returns came out and he said that when they make the superheroes less masculine its both less attractive and less appealing to him as a gay guy.
Yet that is exactly what modern comics are doing to both male and female characters - making them less attractive and less appealing.
Quote:LGDB: Well... things change. I've got no problem with things changing.
Classical beauty ideals haven't changed. The progressive left want to SUBVERT everything so that facts are no longer relevant and only your feelings matter (so it becomes a case of who can screech the loudest).
50+ years of continuity. That's who.
Quote:LGDB: I mean that's kind of a weak argument. For decades of continuity things are one way, and then they're not. I also think that it isn't clear that this is an actual break in continuity. Thor having a type and then dating one person who is against his type isn't a break in continuity. People do that all the time in real life.
Ignoring classical beauty is just self-deception.
Quote:LGDB: yeah, but again I'm not sure why it's so off the table that this change or if it does change that its necessary some nefarious agenda. I think that the writers are just looking for new avenues to expand or change the character. I don't always agree with those changes, but I think that's the force at work here. Or at least the primary one. I also think, that you have a tendency that if a writer expressed different views or beliefs than you, you suggest that it's some kind of illicit political propaganda operation. Why can't it just be someone that disagrees with you about politics that happens to be a writer on Thor (or was recently). Like half the country is on the other side of the aisle.
I think I have read virtually every issue of Thor, lets say 95+% at any rate.
With the exception of Thor battling communists in one of the first issues (at the height of the cold war just to note) only recently has there been ANY sort of political messaging injected into the comic.
I don't care that Aaron has differing politics to me, what I don't want is to have his politics rammed down my throat in my entertainment.
Hopefully Cates keeps his own politics out of the book.
Quote:LGDB: I'm not sure this is true. First, I'd say most people just don't care one way or another. Not caring or at least not being very annoyed probably takes the lions share here.
If you don't care when Thor is portrayed badly then you are not a fan of the character.
Quote:Also I don't think that Shehulk is OVERTLY masculine. She's just really musuclar.
Yes she's muscular in a way no woman could ever NATURALLY be without massive amounts of steroids and growth hormones.
Quote:Like if all of a sudden someone magically transformed your wife into having a body like Shehulk, she'd still have a primarly feminine attitude and set of affectation, right?
Luckily for the progressive left they are doing away with women having feminine attitudes at all.
Quote:Also, I hate to tell you, but a straight guy and a straight woman who happens to be really big and strong doesn't look like a gay relationship at all.
Only 4% of women will date a shorter man (and that is from a Progressive source) because they are seen as less masculine.
Quote:Shehulk's a woman Thor's a man, so they're straight.
If a man is dating a woman who looks more masculine than him, its emasculating.
Quote:And I promise you that Aaron didn't do this to make Thor look gay! lol No that I think that would be the worst thing in the world, but that's just not how it works.
He has done everything in his power to emasculate Thor except make him gay.
Quote:LGDB: I don't know. It just sounds to me like you've got a pretty fragile idea of masculinity.
Fragile masculinity is what I would attribute to someone with male model good looks who dates a classically unattractive woman obviously beneath him on the 'looks ladder'.
Quote:Like think about it, Thor under Aaron saves the universe a dozen times, get's in all kinds of fights, kicks ass and all that, gets his arm cut off and barely flinches. But his girl friend has big arms so he's not a man anymore? What's a guy gotta do to be a guy in your eyes?
Lets see under Aaron...
1. He's disfigured...so therefore less of a masculine ideal.
2. He's turned into a morose, crybaby self-pitying simp...even less attractive.
3. He's made unworthy and thus disgraced and 'impotent'...something Aaron also accuses Odin of (of course Odin's position is also NATURALLY taken over by a woman under Aaron).
4. Not only that he buys into Aaron's nonsensical (Marxist Atheistical) BS that gods can't good (despite Thor saving the world dozens of times)...so he's also an idiot.
5. He has his name, title and property stolen...added to which both his name and hammer are feminized in the process.
So if Aaron's Thor went on a dating app he would write: Homeless, impotent amputee who likes to cry a lot. Hardly a case of who guys want to be and who women want to be with...is it?
Quote:I don't think lying to them sets a good example.
Quote:LGDB: So it's a bigger lie to tell girls that a guy might be attracted to them even if they have an atypical body than it is to tell boys that they can save the universe with their mutant powers?
The positive message of super-hero comics has generally been that heroism is helping those less fortunate than yourself. The super-powers are incidental.
If you tell girls that they can ride off with Prince Charming regardless of body type then you are just deceiving them.
Quote:LGDB: A monster that Thor just happens to be sexually attracted to apparently lol
According to the Thor-hating Jason Aaron, yes.
According to common sense and continuity, no.
Quote:Also she definitely looks different than the Hulk.
In some panels, not all.
Quote:Plus I mean, it makes sense. Girls that fight in the real world aren't usually petite looking super models. They usually have a lot of muscle on them. Like in UFC.
Women fighters don't and can't have a lot of muscle unless they have been on steroids.
Quote:Also they have husband that are attracted to them and love them very much. It makes sense to me.
Unless these girls look like Gina Carano its unlikely their husbands look like Henry Cavill or Chris Hemsworth.
You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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