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Subj: Re: When Jean Grey Returns: A Road Map
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 at 03:50:47 pm EST (Viewed 127 times)
Reply Subj: Re: When Jean Grey Returns: A Road Map
Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 at 01:18:37 am EST (Viewed 20 times)
Quote:A lot of my predictions are based on perceived popularity, sales potential and trends visible in comics writ-large.
I'll be perfectly honest here and say I don't think that's true. I think youre predictions are fairly arbitrary and aren't based off any of the things you cite. And since you didn't back up your road map with any facts or figures from these trends further leads me to doubt the validity of the "map".
I mean, you'll never be able to convincingly link a relationship to sales on a title outside of Spider-Man; The popularity of these characters has nothing to do with who they hook up with; and even if there is a trend that could lead to Logan and Jean finally getting it on, there's no trend on the planet that will support the notion of them ending up with a kid (regardless of if it has powers or not).
Quote:Here's why I disagree: if you take the x-universe as a set of structures filled by characters, the x-universe has never been under girded by Jean Grey the way that Emma Frost does today. The editorial staff has taken a page from Wolverine's playbook retroactively linking her to many marvel heavy-hitters(Namor and Iron Man in specific.) Moreover, Emma has come to serve many roles and actions formerly filled by Magneto and Xavier. Arguably, she is a more pragmatic character that is more in line with modern readers and which characters like Xavier could never recreate for fear of being written "out of character."
Finally, as much as I'm loathed to write this, Emma is far more emancipated character than Jean was. Jean, pessimistically analyzed, reached her peak in a "good girl gone crazy b#*ch" storyline. Emma on the other hand, is an unapologetic, uncompromising woman. Unlike Jean, she's never been written to be afraid of her potential. These type of female characters, I believe, will stay and flourish in popular culture. And to be clear, I think there's more than enough room for both Jean and Emma. Emma Frost represents an "edgier" but necessary character that Jean would be hard pressed to emulate simply because of the "nostalgic factor."
Whatever character facets Emma has over Jean, don't really indicate why Jean would hook up with/have children with Wolverine. Nor do any of your comments about Emma mean she'll retain her popularity over Jean (which again, still only pertains to popularity with the creative staff of Marvel and not mainstream popularity) after Jean returns.
Right now, Emma is Marvel's "it" girl. She's their flavor of the month(s). And once Jean comes back, the creative teams will have to justify her resurrection by reminding the audience how powerful/awesome Jean is. Emma's presence will then be dialed back. Simple as that.
Quote:Two popular characters who have had previous romantic involvement and would be single, at the same time, for the first time. Honestly, when has Jean not been a part of "scott and jean?"
Usually when she's dead. And if we want to talk trends, odds are stronger that the second Jean comes back, that he'll dump Emma like a hot potato.
Quote:> > > His relationship with Jean was expanded in film and I think it's logical to assume that they'll get together post her return. Didn't Morrison examine their relationship a little when they were in orbit or something?
> > He did, IIRC. BUT... Do not confuse sexual tension and good on-screen chemistry with the ability to maintain a long-term relationship, much less one that would involve a child.
> I'm not saying anything long term. How do you define that in comic books? Everything that I am positing above could be accomplished in the same amount of time that Emma and Scott have been together.
Not even remotely. With the amount of events on your map, and given the pacing of comics nowadays, it'd take a little under a decade to hit all those beats.
And additionally, in the time Emma and Scott have been together, they haven't done much. Just had sex in varying locations and hid secrets from each other.
Quote:yeah i don't like wolverine either.
I never said I didn't like Wolverine. I just stated why him and Jean would never work out, much less progress to the point where they have a kid.
Quote:> > > 3)In marvel, characterization is power level.
> > No. Power level is a crutch relied on by Battle Board posters. Characterization is making a character interesting. Saying Jean and Logan's kid is an omega level mutant doesn't make it any more interesting than if it was a powerless and hairy ginger.
> again, I'm not saying it's correct or particularly interesting. I am saying it's a trend. Consider how seminal Iceman's possession by Emma was to his character development. Even a large part of Jean's popularity is directly attributed to her power upgrade.
First, I'm disputing the trend you have for how seminal moments involving Emma are. The only trends that can really be associated with her are her sleeping with powerful men and her students dying. Emma might have "nudged" Iceman to improve upon his abilities or attempted to fix Sentry, but those dubious examples are more coincedental than part of any sort of trend.
As for Jean, I wouldn't go so far as to say any time her power gets upgraded then that correlates to her popularity. In fact, from what I've seen in my day, those upgrades tend to provoke more critical reaction than the opposite.
Quote:> > > 4)Kids are in. X-23, Stepford Cuckoos, and Daken.
> > Correction: Teens and young adults are in. Babies have *NEVER* been in. This is why anytime a baby is born in comics, 99% of the time, they do whatever they can to have the kid age past the newborn stage.
> Would progeny have been a better word then?
Unless Jean can pop a toddler out of her uterus, I doubt it.
Quote:> > And again, with X-23 and Daken running around, shoehorning in some third little brat is wasting space. Actually, a fourth kid considering there's another Logan jr. in the Savage Land. So how about they find something for his current family to do before introducing another?
> Naw. At Marvel new is always better.
Not always. Plus, in addition to all of Logan's family running around, we've also got the other Grey/Summers kids running around: Rachel, Cable and X-Man is back as well. I just don't see them adding to that pile.
Cannibalism? Racism? Dude, that's not for us. Those decisions are better left to the suits in Washington. We're just here to eat some dude!