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Post By
Nitz the Bloody

In Reply To
Mr Sinister

Subj: Re: I'm gonna go with 90s Jean.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 at 09:04:48 pm EDT (Viewed 216 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I'm gonna go with 90s Jean.
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 at 07:09:57 am EDT (Viewed 191 times)

    Most of Stan Lee's original female characters weren't great, let's face it. Sue Richards' original power was simply to be invisible, for crying out loud - no force-fields or anything, just invisibility, so that the guys and their powers could do all the heavy lifting.

But many of them developed into more complex and interesting personalities. Aside from Phoenix, that can't be said for Jean, other than making her powers actually useful.

    Huntress had a similar costume before Jim Lee shoe-horned her into yet another of his exotic-dancer outfits. Scarlet Witch's first costume and subsequent outfits before the George Perez "getting in touch with her heritage" belly-dancer outfit were pretty conservative. Wonder Woman's also currently dressing in a fairly conservative costume (which ironically was also designed by Jim Lee, yet actually covers her legs and boobs). Both Psylocke's armoured costume and the costume she wore during her brief time as Captain Britain were both full-body deals. And Storm's 90s outfit also covered her entire body. Jean is hardly alone in being a female character with a fairly chaste costume.

As an individual trait, it doesn't say anything. My complain is with the bigger picture the character represents.

    And as for that virginity thing... thanks to Weapon Plus, Emma Frost had thousands of kids that never came out of her womb. Thousands. Are you going to tell me that that was a device to keep her pure? I doubt it. I think it's more to do with the notion that while it's fun to have next generation characters, nine months in comic time is obviously going to be far more than nine months in real time (MJ was pregnant for about two years during the Clone Saga, I think, and I don't know how long Sue Richards was pregnant with Franklin). Rachel, X-Man and Cable are, like Skaar, X-23, or even Daken, primarily fun to have around.

See above. It's also worth noting that Madelyne, the character who actually bore Nathan Summers, was written out of the books in a fashion that made her an evil (and skankily dressed) cliche.

    Just making a point that characters do not necessarily have to ooze multiple levels of psychosis or be a study in literary genius to be a success. Hell, Wonder Woman is who most non-comics readers would mention if they were asked to name a female comics character, and her gimmick at the start of her run was "she gets tied up a lot because her creator is a pervert".

First of all, Wonder Woman became more complex. 

Secondly, "multiple levels of psychosis" isn't the issue; it's "multiple levels of ANYTHING" that Jean's lacking. Aside from being an implicitly fetishized avatar of perceived female purity, what does Jean add to the team? Especially in contrast with other characters, especially other female characters that aren't trapped in that All-American Girl Next Door box.

    Magneto has white hair solely because he's an old man. You can't exactly use that as an example of an outlandish physical trait - Storm (and Quicksilver)'s white hair you might have a point with, though. In any case, characters do need a visual hook so that the reader can go "Hey, that's [whoever]! I like them!" Whether that's a physical trait or a costume gimmick, every character needs one. Jean's, unfortunately, has for years been the Phoenix effect rather than a physical trait.

Flashbacks have shown that Erik's hair was white even when he was a younger man, and his physical age is inconsistently portrayed.

And also, you're not exactly helping your case for the merits of non-Phoenix Jean by saying that she lacks any compelling visual look.

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