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In Reply To
Evil G:DR

Subj: Re: If Cyclops is a villain, SO IS JEAN GREY!
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 at 02:01:21 am EDT (Viewed 123 times)
Reply Subj: Re: If Cyclops is a villain, SO IS JEAN GREY!
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 at 11:20:31 am EDT (Viewed 180 times)

Previous Post

I'm going to, once again, remind everyone of how back in the late Silver Age, the Sentinels captured virtually every single known mutant on the planet, and that was well under fifty people. If "ends justifies the means" extreme tactics were unacceptable then, and the X-Men stood up and fought against the Brotherhood and their ways, then it's unacceptable now.

Here, in the real world, there are tribes and racial groups that really are hovering on the edge of being extinct within a few generations, because there aren't enough of them left, and nobody would argue that they should be allowed to run around killing their "enemies", or doing whatever else other things it may take to "re-start the race".

Basically, the X-Men stood against Magneto and his allies because their way of "saving their race" was unacceptable. And now things got a bit hard, so morality and heroism go out the window, and whatever it takes is suddenly OK, and as readers we're supposed to side with them as they take the route they once condemned? The modern-day X-books seem to have embraced the notion that Magneto was ALWAYS right, and Xavier was wrong all along, and that's a really weird and broken place for the franchise to be in.

As for the Schism, isn't it that the teenagers and children shouldn't HAVE to fight? They may not be able to stop them if they want to, because adult authority figures in comics are always inept and Just Don't Understand and are utterly incapable of controlling teenagers and keeping them in school, but they shouldn't HAVE to be fighting.

Also, Hope isn't "Cyclops' child". Of any of the X-Men, Cable is her adoptive father, and he wasn't even around in AvX to get a say on what should happen to her. Cyclops was forcing her towards a destiny she ultimately didn't even want.

1. It seems like apples and oranges to compare Sentinels capturing mutants to "round them up" with Scott protecting his people. T'challa fought to protect his country/city. He even said he would "kill Namor for this". Scott has been drawing a line in the sand metaphorically for quite some time. People kept stepping over it.
2. I don't see Scott as playing the end justifies the means. That's Wolverine and X-Force...which Wolverine did willingly on Scott's orders. Thus, Cyclops =bad means Wolverine =bad.
3. Cyclops wasn't killing enemies to restart the race. He was in a situation of kill or be killed. That was the point the writers were setting up.
4. At first, Magneto's way was always to attack homo sapiens and let homo superior "take over" the world as the rightful rulers. As he aged, he simply wanted a place to have his mutants be left alone (Asteroid M, Genosha). This was never allowed to become the norm. So he would defend himself. Once he defended himself, he would go overboard, and the X-Men got involved. I disagree with Magneto was always right and Xavier always wrong. I would say both made questionable decisions. Xavier was no saint.
5. Schism proved both points of view had merit. A good buddy's father changed his birth certificate so he could go fight WWII at age 16! He, like Cyclops, believed that he had the right to make that choice....and shouldn't be told "No, you can't fight".
6. Hope is not Cyclops' daughter, but she is a child left in his care. The point is, Cyclops was responsible for her. To let the Avengers take her, when they wouldn't say what their plan was, was not acceptable. Phoenix would have destroyed the Earth for all they knew. They obviously couldn't stop it on their own. Hope was the only chance. It was okay when Jean got possessed. The Dark Phoenix path could have been averted possibly if Scott had his way...but we will never know now. As for her not wanting it....tough. Remember when your parents made you eat your vegetables? How about this quote: "Sometimes we find our destiny on the road we took to avoid it" Maybe Hope will finally find her destiny in AvX 12.