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Post By
Superbluerockman

In Reply To
The Black Guardian 
Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 26,165
Subj: Re: If Cyclops is a villain, SO IS JEAN GREY!
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 at 09:05:30 am EDT (Viewed 99 times)
Reply Subj: Re: If Cyclops is a villain, SO IS JEAN GREY!
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 at 08:40:59 am EDT (Viewed 111 times)

Previous Post


    Quote:
    I'm going to, once again, remind everyone of how back in the late Silver Age, the Sentinels captured virtually every single known mutant on the planet, and that was well under fifty people. If "ends justifies the means" extreme tactics were unacceptable then, and the X-Men stood up and fought against the Brotherhood and their ways, then it's unacceptable now.

    Here, in the real world, there are tribes and racial groups that really are hovering on the edge of being extinct within a few generations, because there aren't enough of them left, and nobody would argue that they should be allowed to run around killing their "enemies", or doing whatever else other things it may take to "re-start the race".

Why shouldn't any group be allowed to defend themselves from slaughter? That is what "killing their enemies" means. This enemy is actively trying to exterminate all of them and will not stop until they are exterminated. There are only two choices: give up and die or kill the enemy. There is no third option. I have to wonder the worth of a group that will choose the former. If you're going to do that, then here's a gun, now go sit in the corner and euthanize yourself... and try to be quiet about it.

Heck, the US just spent the last decade doing precisely that, and we weren't even close to extinction. Are such acts ideal? Heck no. In an ideal world there wouldn't be the need for them. But that place doesn't exist.


    Quote:
    Basically, the X-Men stood against Magneto and his allies because their way of "saving their race" was unacceptable. And now things got a bit hard, so morality and heroism go out the window, and whatever it takes is suddenly OK, and as readers we're supposed to side with them as they take the route they once condemned? The modern-day X-books seem to have embraced the notion that Magneto was ALWAYS right, and Xavier was wrong all along, and that's a really weird and broken place for the franchise to be in.

Indeed, Old School Magneto wasn't just "saving his race." He wanted more than to just save his race. Xavier was the one fighting to simply "save the race."


    Quote:
    As for the Schism, isn't it that the teenagers and children shouldn't HAVE to fight? They may not be able to stop them if they want to, because adult authority figures in comics are always inept and Just Don't Understand and are utterly incapable of controlling teenagers and keeping them in school, but they shouldn't HAVE to be fighting.

Exactly.


    Quote:
    Also, Hope isn't "Cyclops' child". Of any of the X-Men, Cable is her adoptive father, and he wasn't even around in AvX to get a say on what should happen to her. Cyclops was forcing her towards a destiny she ultimately didn't even want.

Precisely, plus that destiny could have very well harmed Hope or killed her. Cyclops had every reason to think that it would, yet he wanted to throw her into the fire to save his precious race. That alone is practically as bad as killing.

1. Defending yourself requires that you strike back at a certain point. You can't simply keep defending yourself. If someone wants to kill you, you will be faced with a choice. I'm not saying you have to kill them, but just look to X-Force to prove my point. Fantomex is no longer with us. That Brotherhood is evil and wants the X-Men dead.

2. Magneto was reacting from a place of fear. His family was killed. Murdered for their religion. He was fighting to prevent that from happening again. Problem was he was misguided and thought being top dog was the way to do it. I don't think Scott feels that way. He just wanted to be left on Utopia. He became an isolationist.

3. Again, in a perfect world, kids shouldn't have to fight, but when the fight comes to your front door, it's all hands on deck. Yes...they shouldn't have to, but sometimes...you have to. See "Goonies" "Home Alone" "E.T." for examples when kids have to step up. Or "The Patriot" or "Star Wars" (Luke was 16 i believe..or was it 18?). Just saying...sometimes kids are caught in a do or die. It's not pretty, but it's reality.

4. Cyclops did not know what the Phoenix coming meant. He knew he was better equipped to handle it than the Avengers...as proven by AvX...but the Avengers interference has robbed us of what might have happened. I do not believe Cyclops was going to "sacrifice" Hope. Again, we have no idea what his thoughts and plans were.


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