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Evil G:DR

In Reply To
The Black Guardian 
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Subj: When Did They Screw Up Apocalypse? In 1999.
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 at 08:16:22 pm CDT (Viewed 129 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Questions About Old Storylines And Subplots. When Did They Screw Up Apocalypse? When Did The X-Men Discover That Jean Was Alive, When Did X-Factor Reveal Themselves To The World?
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 at 07:15:14 am CDT (Viewed 134 times)

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    And a few more.



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    First- Longhot's origin. What exactly is his origin anyway? I heard/read that this is a whole convoluted mess. I read the Wiki entry on it, and I STILL don't get it. What's his connection to Spiral? Were they lovers? What's his connection to Shatterstar?

His family tree is a circle: Longshot -> Shatterstar -> Longshot.

Spiral is his ex-girlfriend, "Ricochet" Rita Wayword. She's a stuntwoman he met when he traveled to Earth.


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    #When did X-Factor (The original incarnation, which would be Cyclops, Warren the boring Angel, Iceman, Jean Grey, and Beast.) reveal themselves, or when was it revealed that they were in fact the original X-Men, and that they were not mutant hunters. The original premise had them operating under the pretense that they were mutant hunters, didn't it? I don't think that anyone knew the truth about them. Did the public ever find out? I'm trying to read/get as many of the Louise Simonson issues as I can (Not a popular run, I hear. I read a lot of it when I was growing up, and I enjoyed it.), and in one issue (I think that it was #17 or #18.), they were going to reveal themselves to the press, but Cameron Hodge stopped them by ordering a sneak attack. So did the public ever find out? And if so, when and how? And was Hodge ALWAYS intended to be an evil villain? He's pretty much pure evil, isn't he? That deal with that demon guy that he made during Inferno when he gave him the location of a bunch of mutant babies was really low, and pushed him into monster territory. Would he ever kill any innocent people? How was he in the X-Factor Forever series (Is that still going on?)?

X-Factor revealed themselves at the end of "Fall of the Mutants" with a big press conference.

Yes, they don't come much more evil than him, but I don't think Bob Layton intended for him to be this way. Just as well since Layton's plan for X-Factor was not good. Candy Southern was pretty innocent, so yeah, he'd kill anyone (twice, even).

In the X-Factor Forever alt universe, Hodge's head is collected by Caliban. Apocalypse turns him into Master Meld. He was used as a distraction so Taco-Lips could sneak onto Ship and serves no other purpose.


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    #When did they mess up Apocalypse? During the Simonson X-Factor run, he was a social Darwinist, and he believed that only the strong and worthy should survive. In a way, he was like Magneto. But then, he got really screwed up later down the line, and what kind of origin did they give him? They've done a lot of weird things to the character, and he's really convoluted now. He USED to be cool, but he's just a little bit too convoluted now.

Magneto doesn't believe only the strong survive. He believes that mutants should rule, when he's not simply protecting mutants from evil flatscans.

Apocalypse has not changed from this mode, really. He's still just a much of a Darwinist as ever. I don't really care for the "Life Seed"/"Death Seed" stuff being written right now (which, imo, just ties into my whole opinion that they've really destroyed the concept of Celestials), but I love his origin. It does not make him convoluted at all.

> > #When did they mess up Apocalypse? During the Simonson X-Factor run, he was a social Darwinist, and he believed that only the strong and worthy should survive. In a way, he was like Magneto. But then, he got really screwed up later down the line, and what kind of origin did they give him? They've done a lot of weird things to the character, and he's really convoluted now. He USED to be cool, but he's just a little bit too convoluted now.

> Magneto doesn't believe only the strong survive. He believes that mutants should rule, when he's not simply protecting mutants from evil flatscans.

> Apocalypse has not changed from this mode, really. He's still just a much of a Darwinist as ever. I don't really care for the "Life Seed"/"Death Seed" stuff being written right now (which, imo, just ties into my whole opinion that they've really destroyed the concept of Celestials), but I love his origin. It does not make him convoluted at all.

I think that things like the introduction of Cable's possible-future timeline, where Apocalypse ruled, and then the Age of Apocalypse, had an effect on the regular, present-day Apocalypse, in that people started writing him like his goal was "take over the world", rather than "manipulate the course of evolution, and have totally intense debates with Wolverine to challenge his creationist views". Milligan's post-M-Day revival of Apocalypse started to get him back on the right track, and despite the whole "Apocalypse without Actual Apocalypse" debacle we've been living through since Uncanny X-Force first started, they at least seem to be focusing on Apocalypse's original goals, and the notion that he serves an important role in the world and in the Celestials' Big Cosmic Plan.

Still, during this "he wants to conquer the world" time period, Apocalypse was mostly just lurking in the background, up until 1999, and there's where we got something truly ruinous that really hurt Apocalypse. Back in 1994, the 'Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix' miniseries depicted Cable's timeline, where a far-future Apocalypse had abandoned his "survival of the fittest" code and instead chose his own survival above all else, jumping into host-bodies so he can live forever, and the host-bodies burn out quickly. But this was just a possible-future, so it didn't matter. And then in the Big Apocalypse Crossover event of 1999, suddenly his armour gets ripped open and there's a withered old guy inside and we're getting the host-body stuff right here in the present. I can remember reading about people literally throwing the comic down in disgust when that happened.

And then Apocalypse was one of the guys who was killed by editorial-demand, with the end of the "Search for Cyclops" miniseries being changed to kill him off, because that's how the Jemas/Quesada regime rolled. When he came back in 2006, they took the time to try and explain the host-bodies stuff away and be kind of like "yes, he can do that, but he's not doing that anymore."

But no, Apocalypse's origin itself has nothing to do with any of the problems he's faced. The problems have all come from trying to mess with the basic concept, either in terms of his goals, or who/what he is. No-one wants to see Apocalypse as an old guy in an Apocalypse-suit, and no-one wants to see some kind of Apocalypse-substitute.



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