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Post By
askani

In Reply To
Evil G:DR

Subj: Re: I don't know where he is, but he's still not in prison.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 11:48:25 am EDT (Viewed 99 times)
Reply Subj: I don't know where he is, but he's still not in prison.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 at 09:20:46 pm EDT (Viewed 108 times)

Previous Post

> That ending was altered? Never read that before. What I read was that Cyclops was brought back earlier than he might have been. That Jemas thought it was wrong that, with a movie out, Cyclops was out of the books and ordered him brought back. Never read that the actual story was altered, though. What was the original ending?

I can't remember the exact month in '00 that Search for Cyclops started, or the month when Jemas started throwing his weight around, and Harras was replaced with Quesada as editor-in-chief, but I'm sure that the time between the two events is waaaaay too small for Search for Cyclops to have been "ordered by Jemas", as opposed to happening exactly when it was planned to (although Jemas was having a stopped-clock moment in terms of Cyclops being 'killed off' not long before the movie).

And on the subject of the movie, apparently it was moved forward from it's original release date, and that's why Marvel published an X-Men vs Brotherhood storyline in November 2000, and in the month the movie was out, they were publishing that thing with the Crimson Pirates and The Goth, which was nigh-impenetrable to any hypothetical newcomers (and not much more accessible to regulars). But the thing to remember is that no-one had any idea if it would be any good, or do very well, so you can kind of see how Marvel would be reluctant to impose drastic movie-inspired changes onto the comics, especially given previous years of reluctance to change the books very much, for fear of losing readers.

But anyway, getting back to the point, of Apocalypse's 'death', what I can remember is the news that the guy who wrote that miniseries saying how it was originally going to end with Apocalypse surviving and escaping somehow, but the end was changed to kill him in a way that reads like it was meant to be Real, Permanent And Forever. See also; the deaths of X-Man and Stryfe at around the same time, and Tieri not being allowed to use Sinister or Hazard in his Wolverine run because they were "too complicated". Or how Bishop's being from the future was largely avoided.

Cripes, that era really ballsed up the X-Men beyond all repair, didn't it?

Nice to see this brought you out of lurking, though.

Well, this happened a long time ago. Perhaps I'm not remembering all the details/quotes correctly. I thought I remembered reading that Jemas wanted him back. I thought he and Quesada took over summeriah 2000 and SEARCH came out at the end of 2000. Issue 4 might have come out in early 2001? Lobdell's interim run was, I'm pretty sure, all in 2001. May, was it, that Morrison and Casey started?

Joseph Harris wrote SEARCH. He also wrote that Bishop series in that era. He had a website back then. Never saw him mention the ending being changed. I remember he called Scott and Jean Marvel's greatest couple. I'm guessing he probably didn't have in mind what wound up happening with them. Anyway, on his site, he answered a bunch of questions on the mini. Nothing about editorial changing things, though.
Not arguing he didn't say it. Hell, I have no recollection of Tieri saying what you say he said either.

Not sure what this accomplished with a character like Apocalypse. I mean given the nature of his powers. I know I didn't read SEARCH and think, this guy is definitively dead. We saw him escape or we saw what we saw. Either way I thought we'd be back. But the characters believe what the plot calls for them t5o believe. We saw Cyclops merge with Apocalypse and escape, not die. But the other X Men spent 9 months acting like he was dead.

Regarding villains and rest. Couple years before this I would read how Sinister and Apocalypse were supposedly overused and needed a rest. And I never got it. Never thought either ever was. I always thought that Sabretooth was the X villain that applied to back then, if it applied to any of them.

I do remember all the cancelled books. Every book had to have it's own message, a distinct purpose. Something like that, anyway. And that they were way too complicated. Morrison and Casey talked about that a bunch in the WIZARD special leading into their runs. Then, a decade later, weren't there more X books then ever?

I don't remember anything about Quesada ordering deaths. More like dead means dead. That he stopped letting creators bring characters back. wasn't that what happened with psylocke in XTREME? Later on, it was amended to unless some has a good story to bring them back.

And they did wind up doing stuff that tried to make the books more like the movies. Just took awhile. Toad and Mystique's appearances changing in FOREVER. those miniseries that came out. The Rogue one reads like movie Rogue. I think Jean was a doctor in it. Not that it ever gets them more readers longterm. The movies would spike the sales short term. Then they'd slowly drop down again.

While I'm no huge fan of this era, I can't say it drove me off the books. Nor am I going to blame SEARCH for what Morrison did. I think he still would have turned Jean Phoenix and still broken up Scott and Jean. With ot without Apocalypse. He would have just gone about it a different way. Provided he'd used the characters. If they had kept Cyclops "dead" he would have used someone else like he didn't use colossus.

Been a very long time now. Morrison is ancient history. The characters are what they've become. They are not going back to the Cyclops that I liked. Or the X Men. Doesn't mean I won't go see the movies, but reading the books? No way. That would require the mother of all retcons.

Believe me, I'm not doing a lot of lurking here at this point. But when I am, and I see you posting, I take a look.