Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,562
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,334
Subj: Re: Exactly. It Is A Matter Of Nostalgia.
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 at 11:16:07 am EDT (Viewed 308 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Exactly. It Is A Matter Of Nostalgia.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 at 01:10:21 pm EDT (Viewed 397 times)

    Rachel was the new Phoenix because she was the biological daughter of the Jean Grey of her timeline and, from the ashes of tragedy (Days of Future Past & Dark Phoenix), a new Phoenix would rise, a woman who would learn to control the power.

    That's why she was so gloomy in her first appearances and, why she became much more optimistic in Excalibur.

    I think that Rachel Summers is a classic character in her own right since she was created by Claremont & Byrne and not one of the second hand ersatz that appeared later (such as Hope Summers).

Unlike Meteor, I like Rachel and think she's come a long way as a character. That said, her role eventually became a stand-in for her 616 mother.


      1. Has the X-Men gotten along fine without Jean? No.

    Of course, they have : from 1980 to 1986, the X-Men book was an excellent comics and Jean Grey was nowhere around.

Sure, Jean was around - in the form of her clone, Madelyne Pryor, introduced in 1983. Jean was one of the primary drivers of one of Marvel's most acclaimed storylines in the company's entire history. The Claremont-Byrne run of Uncanny X-Men from #108 to #143 is now part of Marvel's DNA and they will always want to milk it from time to time. To do it right, which they haven't, they have to have Jean around. Instead, Marvel tries to respect the ramifications of the original story, Jean's death, and tries to expand upon the Dark Phoenix Saga by using a Jean stand-in like Madelyne, Rachel, or Hope, and it just doesn't work.


      2. If Jean is so useless then why do we have teen Jean, Hope and Phoenix running around? We have those 3 characters taking her place. If Jean is so irrelevant get rid of teen Jean. If Jean is relevant get rid of the teenage version and just use the real one.

    Teen Jean came along with the other X-Kids.

But the X-Kids were around as a whole because the original five X-Men had been written so poorly, Marvel wanted to have these characters around with a clean slate. It was Bendis' stupidity. If you want to fix the original 5 X-Men, come up with a good retcon.

    Much more than Jean Grey herself, it is the Phoenix Force which is always making a comeback and I am fed up ad nauseam to see it again.

There's nothing wrong with the Phoenix Force if written well. It's just frequently written poorly.

    Cyclops & the other Phoenix Five killing Xavier was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

One of the best examples of the Phoenix Force written poorly.

How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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